2012 Camaro Z28 confirmed via spyshots! Confirmed with 6.2L supercharged V8.

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally Posted by shuck

Hey if you want to get your panties in a bunch go ahead. I am being an ass because I won't assume I know how much a car weighs, great logic.

Let's be realistic. Do you really think there's a chance that the Z28 won't be heavier than the SS?

[The_Reverend]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

Let's be realistic. Do you really think there's a chance that the Z28 won't be heavier than the SS?

That's like saying the GT500 is going to weigh less than a GT. No f'ing way.

[ill deuce]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

Let's be realistic. Do you really think there's a chance that the Z28 won't be heavier than the SS?

z06 weighed less than a reg. c6

[NHRATA01]

Originally Posted by ill deuce

z06 weighed less than a reg. c6

Yeah, with a completely different frame. And sticking with the same basic engine design, ie no blower on top and extra cooling plumbing.

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by ill deuce

z06 weighed less than a reg. c6

The (blown) ZR1 gained weight over the (N/A) Z06, which is very similar to the (blown) GT500 gaining weight over the (N/A) 5.0.

[Morpheus]

[Rich_S]

So the Z28 will have 6 more hp than the GT500 but will weigh 200-300 lbs more? Not looking good for GM. They need to put that pig on a diet.

[Cobra Commander]

The could lighten it up but then the retired guys would bitch about it being too loud inside.

[Mr. Blonde]

Enough of this piston slap bullshit....plenty of cars used forged slugs like high end bmws and mercedes.....I'm not hearing piston slap in my M5.

[shuck]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

Let's be realistic. Do you really think there's a chance that the Z28 won't be heavier than the SS?

No I don't but I will not assume I know the weight or the exact HP until it is out, remember this car does not exist.

[Mr. Blonde]

Originally Posted by shuck

No I don't but I will not assume I know the weight or the exact HP until it is out, remember this car does not exist.

Anyone with common sense should realize IF a Z28 comes out, it will be a good amount heavier.

Weight of the blower setup, bigger drivetrain, beefier suspesion, wider wheels/tires, it's a no brainer.

GM would never invest any weight savings technology into this car in order to keep it competitive.

[SeanPlunk]

Originally Posted by shuck

No I don't but I will not assume I know the weight or the exact HP until it is out, remember this car does not exist.

[SeanPlunk]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blonde

Anyone with common sense should realize IF a Z28 comes out, it will be a good amount heavier.

Weight of the blower setup, bigger drivetrain, beefier suspesion, wider wheels/tires, it's a no brainer.

GM would never invest any weight savings technology into this car in order to keep it competitive.

Don't bother, he's an idiot and just trolling up the thread.

[MT Wallet]

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

I like GM, but I'm afraid you're right.

It will be a waste/token gesture to fanboys if they don't give it a stronger bottom end to take on the GT500. I think all Camaros will get a new interior in 2012 so that is covered . . .

Please don't be offended when I say this, but what "fanboys" are you talking about?

I certainly don't see hardly any on this website and this is a supposed Camaro website.

Go look at that website in the link and see how many members at that "fanboy" site actually OWN the new Camaro.

Unless they are lying, there seems to be a lot of owners..and very proud owners I might add.

This website for the life of me seems to be the exception when it comes to Camaro loyalty....or the lack of it.

No disrespect intended, I just get peeved when I read some of the stuff posted here. I'm not singling any one out, just the "fanboys" comment.

[triggerjerk]

Originally Posted by MT Wallet

Please don't be offended when I say this, but what "fanboys" are you talking about?

I certainly don't see hardly any on this website and this is a supposed Camaro website.

Go look at that website in the link and see how many members at that "fanboy" site actually OWN the new Camaro.

Unless they are lying, there seems to be a lot of owners..and very proud owners I might add.

This website for the life of me seems to be the exception when it comes to Camaro loyalty....or the lack of it.

No disrespect intended, I just get peeved when I read some of the stuff posted here. I'm not singling any one out, just the "fanboys" comment.

Imho, only a GM fan would pick a heavier Z28 over a GT500.
My point is, by the numbers, and loyalty aside, the GT500 will have it beat.

[Jack Daniels]

I'd take the Z28.

[DANSBIRD]

eh

[Sax1031]

My only two complaints about the Camaro would be if they went with the hyperutectic(sp?) pistons and weight. But I think the GT500, and 2011 Mustang GT, are to heavy also.

[jdsgn]

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

Imho, only a GM fan would pick a heavier Z28 over a GT500.
My point is, by the numbers, and loyalty aside, the GT500 will have it beat.

BS, I think the SS looks better than a GT500.... and have high hopes that the Z will address the current issues I have with it. And again you don't know how much heavier it will be. I really hope its a 600 hp rating and hope its underrated at that. Id love for the Z28 to shut up the Gt500 fanboys on here. Its turned into a SVTperformance site without as many stupid people...

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by jdsgn

BS, I think the SS looks better than a GT500.... and have high hopes that the Z will address the current issues I have with it. And again you don't know how much heavier it will be. I really hope its a 600 hp rating and hope its underrated at that. Id love for the Z28 to shut up the Gt500 fanboys on here. Its turned into a SVTperformance site without as many stupid people...

GM better plan for 660ish hp. Ford will warranty you that in a GT500 right now.

[jdsgn]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

GM better plan for 660ish hp. Ford will warranty you that in a GT500 right now.

I don't really care about a dealer add on supercharger that still has a warranty... im talking stock every day GT500... see its that kinda post that just seems silly? Is the 660hp what the GT500 is rated at or what you will find on the streets 95% of the time? No. GM just has to compete with the 540 hp (underrated so closer to 590) GT500.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by jdsgn

I don't really care about a dealer add on supercharger that still has a warranty... im talking stock every day GT500... see its that kinda post that just seems silly? Is the 660hp what the GT500 is rated at or what you will find on the streets 95% of the time? No. GM just has to compete with the 540 hp (underrated so closer to 590) GT500.

What I am saying is that Ford is on a wait and see deal with the Z28. They have even hinted at this.

I think for 2011 them getting the SVT package out they are trying to get the suspension down on the GT500. I think they are waiting to see what the Z28 brings to the table. If needed they will make that TVS blower in the Super Pack standard on the GT500.

[jdsgn]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

What I am saying is that Ford is on a wait and see deal with the Z28. They have even hinted at this.

I think for 2011 them getting the SVT package out they are trying to get the suspension down on the GT500. I think they are waiting to see what the Z28 brings to the table. If needed they will make that TVS blower in the Super Pack standard on the GT500.

I just honestly don't see this happening.. if it does great..... I'll believe it when I see it. It would put GM in a tough place since Ford doesnt have a ceiling where as GM has to deal with the vette and its ratings.

[HOTCIVIC]

Ford has had a few years to refine the GT500 and make improvements. GM will need some time to do the same to the Z28.

My first instinct is to bitch that the Z28 is gonna be heavy, but a few years ago the Camaro was dead and a lot of people thought it was gone for good. Now there's a 550+ hp supercharged V8 Camaro that appears to be ready for production. If you look at the big picture, things are pretty good right now.

[Morpheus]

Fanboy checking in.

IMO, I don't think the Z28 will have the LSA. Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems that GM has been working on this car for far too long to just slap an LSA and some suspension mods on this thing. That seems too easy and it shouldn't take this long to bring to production.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by jdsgn

I just honestly don't see this happening.. if it does great..... I'll believe it when I see it. It would put GM in a tough place since Ford doesnt have a ceiling where as GM has to deal with the vette and its ratings.

I see it happening. Ford has gotten serious the last few years.

I am not saying they are going to get retarded. I could see them slapping on the tvs blower from the super pack and having it set to be rated at 605hp. Ford won't go right to 660hp.

But that will depend on what the Z28 brings to the table.

And Hotcivic you are right Ford has had a few years to refine the GT500. And it was pretty portly itself till this year. Even though I think 3820lbs is still heavy.

[DANSBIRD]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Fanboy checking in.

IMO, I don't think the Z28 will have the LSA. Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems that GM has been working on this car for far too long to just slap an LSA and some suspension mods on this thing. That seems too easy and it shouldn't take this long to bring to production.

I think you're failing to recognize that the car has been completed for quite some time now... GM just hasn't given production the green light until now (2012).

GM design chief Ed Welburn confirmed to us at the Frankfurt Show that the Camaro Z28 program is back on track. As we reported back in April, the Z28 was basically completed, with the design signed off, but the final engineering and certification work was put on hold as GM's financial situation spun out of control.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/a...#ixzz0v5TYCyZ9

http://www.motortrend.com/features/a..._go/index.html

No, I'm not insulting/calling you out or anything, so you can refrain from having a meltdown b/c someone didn't 100% agree w/ you.

[NHRATA01]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Fanboy checking in.

IMO, I don't think the Z28 will have the LSA. Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems that GM has been working on this car for far too long to just slap an LSA and some suspension mods on this thing. That seems too easy and it shouldn't take this long to bring to production.

I don't see it getting a dry sump LS9, and with money still somewhat tight, especially for a niche performance car, I don't see them designing a 3rd blown LSx variant just for the Z28. The LSA is a fine fit for that car.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by NHRATA01

I don't see it getting a dry sump LS9, and with money still somewhat tight, especially for a niche performance car, I don't see them designing a 3rd blown LSx variant just for the Z28. The LSA is a fine fit for that car.

I don't think it will get a LS9 and sell for $70k under the ZR1.

The LSA is a perfectly fine motor. Just please put forged slugs in the damn thing.

[Sax1031]

For anyone with Speed channel on their Battle of the Supercars show they have a GT500 taking on a Supercharged SS. Both cars are modded.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by DANSBIRD

I think you're failing to recognize that the car has been completed for quite some time now... GM just hasn't given production the green light until now (2012).



http://www.motortrend.com/features/a..._go/index.html

No, I'm not insulting/calling you out or anything, so you can refrain from having a meltdown b/c someone didn't 100% agree w/ you.

Bullshit. I don't believe that the car is basically done. If it was, it would be released as a 2011 model because so many people want this car.

Oh and you can fuck off, faggot, for your little smart ass comment.

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I see it happening. Ford has gotten serious the last few years.

This. I absolutely see it happening. Ford is not fucking around anymore.

[SeanPlunk]

Originally Posted by NHRATA01

I don't see it getting a dry sump LS9, and with money still somewhat tight, especially for a niche performance car, I don't see them designing a 3rd blown LSx variant just for the Z28. The LSA is a fine fit for that car.

I agree. All information that has been leaked so far all points to the Z28 having an LSA.

[Morpheus]

I'm not saying that it will get an LS9 but that doesn't mean that they won't make improvements to the LSA or some other area of the car. I just have a hard time believing that if the car was basically done, why it isn't on dealer lots right now. They're changing something if the car was basically done.

[Rich_S]

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

Imho, only a GM fan would pick a heavier Z28 over a GT500.
My point is, by the numbers, and loyalty aside, the GT500 will have it beat.

This.

I've owned 3 Camaros to date - a 69, 72, and 98. I've never owned a Mustang. But unless GM pulls off a miracle, there's a good chance I buy a GT500 in the next year or so. Now, if GM did pull off said miracle, I'd be all over the Z28.

[Rich_S]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

What I am saying is that Ford is on a wait and see deal with the Z28. They have even hinted at this.

I think for 2011 them getting the SVT package out they are trying to get the suspension down on the GT500. I think they are waiting to see what the Z28 brings to the table. If needed they will make that TVS blower in the Super Pack standard on the GT500.

There was a rumor on one of the Mustang boards that Eaton was discontinuing the M122 supercharger, so there is a pretty good chance the GT500 will be standard in 2012 or 2013.

[Rich_S]

Originally Posted by NHRATA01

I don't see it getting a dry sump LS9, and with money still somewhat tight, especially for a niche performance car, I don't see them designing a 3rd blown LSx variant just for the Z28. The LSA is a fine fit for that car.

There is ZERO chance the Z28 is getting the LS9. The probability is literally the same as the Z28 really being a Transformers robot. Not a chance.

It's going to be an LSA. They MIGHT put a different airbox and exhaust on it and rate it at 560 or 565 instead of 556, but that's about it.

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally Posted by Rich_S

There was a rumor on one of the Mustang boards that Eaton was discontinuing the M122 supercharger, so there is a pretty good chance the GT500 will be standard in 2012 or 2013.

The '10+ cars are making 600rwhp+ with just the factory super pack .

[Rich_S]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

The '10+ cars are making 600rwhp+ with just the factory super pack .

If the 2012's come out with a factory TVS, that basically ends my waffling and I'm buying one. As soon as I got it, I'd probably do the basic plenum/throttle body/air tube/upper pulley/tune and maybe the KR mufflers and be done with it. That combo would net an easy 685+ rwhp, without requiring any fuel system changes or impacting driveability/emissions in the least. An x-pipe, MAF, and a lower pulley would put it over 700 at the wheels, but would likely require bigger injectors and a boost a pump.

[SeanPlunk]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

The '10+ cars are making 600rwhp+ with just the factory super pack .

Holy crap! Do you have a link to that, I'd like to take a look. Even if I get a Whipple on my 04 I still won't be able to keep up

[sykal]

Originally Posted by Rich_S

If the 2012's come out with a factory TVS, that basically ends my waffling and I'm buying one. As soon as I got it, I'd probably do the basic plenum/throttle body/air tube/upper pulley/tune and maybe the KR mufflers and be done with it. That combo would net an easy 685+ rwhp, without requiring any fuel system changes or impacting driveability/emissions in the least. An x-pipe, MAF, and a lower pulley would put it over 700 at the wheels, but would likely require bigger injectors and a boost a pump.

i can't even imagine that

[SadbutTrue]

Originally Posted by Rich_S

If the 2012's come out with a factory TVS, that basically ends my waffling and I'm buying one. As soon as I got it, I'd probably do the basic plenum/throttle body/air tube/upper pulley/tune and maybe the KR mufflers and be done with it. That combo would net an easy 685+ rwhp, without requiring any fuel system changes or impacting driveability/emissions in the least. An x-pipe, MAF, and a lower pulley would put it over 700 at the wheels, but would likely require bigger injectors and a boost a pump.

Good christ.

[MT Wallet]

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

Imho, only a GM fan would pick a heavier Z28 over a GT500.
My point is, by the numbers, and loyalty aside, the GT500 will have it beat.

I respect your opinion

[Rich_S]

Originally Posted by SadbutTrue

Good christ.

Check out the September issue of 5.0 Magazine.

They did a test of a bunch of bolt-ons for a 2008 GT500.

Ultimately they ended up with:

TVS Replacement Supercharger
VMP Inlet Elbow
VMP Dual 72mm Throttle Body
GT Rubber Inlet Tube
FRPP 123mm MAF
80lb fuel injectors
Upper and Lower Pulleys
Bassani X-Pipe w/ hi-flow cats
Bassani catback exhaust
VMP Tune

At the wheels: 706hp and 702 ft/lbs.

And that's a 2008 without the cold air kit. A 2010+ with the same mods would probably make around 10 more hp.

There's a guy on the FordGT500.com forum with the same setup as above plus long tube headers, off road pipes, and a more aggressive tune making 750rwhp.

With a Kenne Belle or Whipple supercharger instead of the TVS, and everything else the same, you can make 800-850 rwhp.

This is all with bone stock long blocks and stock cams.

[triggerjerk]

Originally Posted by MT Wallet

I respect your opinion

That's cool.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do.
I actually am a GM fan. I still have an LS1

However, it just seems like Ford has the will/goods to up the ante on the GT500.

I think GM will compete on price and have the Z28 sticker for a tad less than the GT500. Plus, they can always say "We have the Corvette" if people point out that the Mustang has more power available.

[TA Tom]

TVS Replacement Supercharger (or Kenne Belle or Whipple supercharger)
VMP Inlet Elbow
VMP Dual 72mm Throttle Body
GT Rubber Inlet Tube
FRPP 123mm MAF
80lb fuel injectors
Upper and Lower Pulleys
Bassani X-Pipe w/ hi-flow cats
Bassani catback exhaust
VMP Tune
long tube headers
off road pipes
more aggressive tune

what would that cost and what would one have to not do so as to be able to pass emissions?

[Rich_S]

Originally Posted by TA Tom

TVS Replacement Supercharger (or Kenne Belle or Whipple supercharger)
VMP Inlet Elbow
VMP Dual 72mm Throttle Body
GT Rubber Inlet Tube
FRPP 123mm MAF
80lb fuel injectors
Upper and Lower Pulleys
Bassani X-Pipe w/ hi-flow cats
Bassani catback exhaust
VMP Tune
long tube headers
off road pipes
more aggressive tune

what would that cost and what would one have to not do so as to be able to pass emissions?

Obviously off-road pipes won't pass emissions, but if you used high flow cats instead, everything else would pass.

Personally I'd skip the headers, x-pipe, lower pulley, and MAF because then you'd be able to use the stock injectors and fuel pump and still put out 685 rwhp.

VMP sells the throttle body and inlet elbow as a package for $799, the intake tube is $59, pulley is $160, and the SCT tuner with a canned tune is $449. You can buy the TVS supercharger from Ford or from one of the various internet sites for around $4k.

The supercharger is the most expensive part, which is why it will absolutely rock if the TVS comes standard next year.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

For anyone with Speed channel on their Battle of the Supercars show they have a GT500 taking on a Supercharged SS. Both cars are modded.

I watched it. That show sucks ass. I can't see anyone that has ever seen one episode of Top Gear enjoying that show.

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally Posted by Rich_S

Check out the September issue of 5.0 Magazine.

They did a test of a bunch of bolt-ons for a 2008 GT500.

Ultimately they ended up with:

TVS Replacement Supercharger
VMP Inlet Elbow
VMP Dual 72mm Throttle Body
GT Rubber Inlet Tube
FRPP 123mm MAF
80lb fuel injectors
Upper and Lower Pulleys
Bassani X-Pipe w/ hi-flow cats
Bassani catback exhaust
VMP Tune

At the wheels: 706hp and 702 ft/lbs.

And that's a 2008 without the cold air kit. A 2010+ with the same mods would probably make around 10 more hp.

There's a guy on the FordGT500.com forum with the same setup as above plus long tube headers, off road pipes, and a more aggressive tune making 750rwhp.

With a Kenne Belle or Whipple supercharger instead of the TVS, and everything else the same, you can make 800-850 rwhp.

This is all with bone stock long blocks and stock cams.

The TVS kit includes a CAI. The '10s can make more power when modded because they have knock sensors, so tuners aren't afraid to go a little more aggressive.

A new TB worries me a bit though. Swapping out a TB in these cars is the quickest way to fuck up the stock driveability (very common problem). If I had to trust one, it would be the VMP tb though, as Justin from VMP is the one who did the last round of mods to my car and tuned it. He was very honest and straightforward.

One thing he told me is about the issues with the KB and Whipples you often don't hear discussed on forums. In traffic, both of them can heat up, and the s/c can lock up. He said that if you're going to dd it, stick with the TVS.

[Rich_S]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

The TVS kit includes a CAI.

You sure 'bout that? The TVS kit from FRPP includes an "air resonator eliminator" which is the $56 inlet tube I referenced. It goes between the throttle body and the MAF. Not a CAI.

A new TB worries me a bit though. Swapping out a TB in these cars is the quickest way to fuck up the stock driveability (very common problem). If I had to trust one, it would be the VMP tb though, as Justin from VMP is the one who did the last round of mods to my car and tuned it. He was very honest and straightforward.

A lot of people had issues with the mono blade throttle bodies and driveability. I haven't heard of any issues with the dual blade TBs, either the VMP or the L&M.

One thing he told me is about the issues with the KB and Whipples you often don't hear discussed on forums. In traffic, both of them can heat up, and the s/c can lock up. He said that if you're going to dd it, stick with the TVS.

I think that's BS. The Ford GT came stock with a twin screw made by Whipple.

[Rich_S]

BTW, I do think that the TVS is the better supercharger for the street, but not because of any nonsense about the others locking up.

The limit for these cars on pump gas is right around 750rwhp. Regardless of supercharger. The KB and Whipples can make more than that (850+) because they can be spun a lot faster than the TVS and thus can be made to produce even high boost, but this requires race gas.

[Rich_S]

Also, the new Kenne Belle 3.6LC blower is a beast (the regular Kenne Belle is a 2.8, the TVS is a 2.3, stock is 2.1). Over on Shelby Forums, someone made 900rwhp with the 3.6LC, full bolt-ons, stock internals. Someone else made 1125rwhp with a fully built motor with aftermarket cams and ported stock heads. And now Kenne Belle has a 4.2LC .

The crazy thing though is you see a hell of a lot more dyno sheets than timeslips out there. It's like Fords version of the Supra, lol.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Rich_S

Also, the new Kenne Belle 3.6LC blower is a beast (the regular Kenne Belle is a 2.8, the TVS is a 2.3, stock is 2.1). Over on Shelby Forums, someone made 900rwhp with the 3.6LC, full bolt-ons, stock internals. Someone else made 1125rwhp with a fully built motor with aftermarket cams and ported stock heads. And now Kenne Belle has a 4.2LC .

The crazy thing though is you see a hell of a lot more dyno sheets than timeslips out there. It's like Fords version of the Supra, lol.

I want to see guys get crazy with the turbo builds on the GT500. Like the Ford GT guys that have pushed 1400+ rwhp.

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally Posted by Rich_S

You sure 'bout that? The TVS kit from FRPP includes an "air resonator eliminator" which is the $56 inlet tube I referenced. It goes between the throttle body and the MAF. Not a CAI.

As far as I know, the only mods on my car when I got it were the TVS kit and the FR3 suspension pack, and it sure as shit had a CAI on there.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

As far as I know, the only mods on my car when I got it were the TVS kit and the FR3 suspension pack, and it sure as shit had a CAI on there.

I thought I read they added CAI on the Super Pack kit myself.

[Harmon Rabb]

Rich, you're thinking of the '10+ super pack, I bet. Those cars already come with a CAI, so the super pack doesn't need to add one. the 07-09 cars don't come with a CAI.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

Rich, you're thinking of the '10+ super pack, I bet. Those cars already come with a CAI, so the super pack doesn't need to add one. the 07-09 cars don't come with a CAI.

yep

[Rich_S]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

Rich, you're thinking of the '10+ super pack, I bet. Those cars already come with a CAI, so the super pack doesn't need to add one. the 07-09 cars don't come with a CAI.

Ah, that would explain it.

[Rich_S]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I want to see guys get crazy with the turbo builds on the GT500. Like the Ford GT guys that have pushed 1400+ rwhp.

There is a TT kit out for the GT500 called the Hellion, but it leaves the SC in place, so technically the car is both supercharged and turbocharged. That seems hokey to me. I'd like to see a pure TT kit.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Rich_S

There is a TT kit out for the GT500 called the Hellion, but it leaves the SC in place, so technically the car is both supercharged and turbocharged. That seems hokey to me. I'd like to see a pure TT kit.

Yea I have seen that. Compounding the boost.